Home > Church of Scientology, My timeline > The OSA ambush meeting

The OSA ambush meeting

I have previously alluded to a meeting I had with OSA (Church of Scientology’s Office of Special Affairs). Since OSA has not come back to me for over a month now, I choose to divulge the content and form of this meeting. Here’s how it went:

I had a meeting with a Swedish OT VIII friend of mine about two months ago where I gave him my viewpoints of the current scene in the Church of Scientology. His comment was along the lines of “If this is true, then we’re all neck-deep in shit”. A couple of weeks later, he wanted another meeting with me to talk about several points that came up in the first meeting. He wanted very much to see me again and was noticeably stressed about having the new meeting that week, and on Friday, and at a specific time. I know this guy to never be stressed. He is the most easy going an relaxed guy. I have known him for 20 years, he used to be my boss for 10 years – and a very good friend.

I came late to the second meeting. Rushing into the restaurant in downtown Oslo, seeing my friend, shaking his hand and noticing a lady sitting at the same table. I asked “Who are you?” She replied “My name is Kirsten. I’m from OSA”. She also said she was from the international office in LA. I wonder what she was doing in Oslo… if she came all the way from LA to see me. She said “I just happened to be in the neighborhood.”

I asked what her purpose was for including herself unannounced in the meeting. She said she wanted to give me OSAs answers to my positions.

I thought this was interesting and decided to get all the data I could from OSA; I said “Sure, give it to me”. “I don’t have the data here, it’s at a hotel nearby”. Kirsten and my friend wanted me to come with them to a conference room they had set up for the purpose of giving me some important data that according to my friend would have prevented me from publishing the doubt write-up if I had them earlier.

We walked a few blocks, through the hotel doors up the stairs and into the conference room. Kirsten excused herself to go and get the material and came back with paper, books, and another woman. The ambush just got more interesting. I clarified the names of the two. It was Kirsten Ceatano from OSA Int and Anette Refstrup from OSA EU.

They had brought a set of declarations written by current Int base staff – Ray Mithoff, Mark Yager, Mark Ingber, Wendell Raynolds, Russ Bellin, Greg Hughes, Cathy Rinder and more. I read 8 of the affidavits. They were all sanctifying David Miscavige while demonizing Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder. That was the sole purpose of the documents – to show that Miscavige is perfect and that Rathbun and Rinder are the real SPs.

During the 2,5 hour long meeting, I got to ask plenty of questions, many of which prompted some interesting answers. I’ll give you a few interesting ones:

  1. There has been no SP Hole/Hall
  2. It never happened that declared SPs have been kept on post
  3. There are 1000-1200 staff at the Int Base
  4. Since 1982 only Guillaume Lesevre has been posted as ED Int
  5. The Int base is a posted place
  6. The church has never used the content of ethics folders to discredit anyone
  7. The declarations I read was first presented to the SP Times in early June

Let’s see if we can counter these. I’ll start: The declarations were all dated August 27th 😉

There are more interesting tidbits from this meeting. I may post more later.

After the meeting I learned that Kirsten Caetano is one of the three main handlers for enemies of the church. The other two are the couple Tommy Davis and Jessica Feshbach. Kirsten was ready to come back for another meeting the following week. Since I went to the US, that couldn’t be done. But no rest for the wicked; Kirsten called me on my cell phone while I was in LA and asked if we could meet there. That way she would spare the time and money for a trip to Norway.

I told her I would bring a friend – I wasn’t about to ambush the meeting like she did. She asked me who the friend was. When I told her it was Jason Beghe, she responded: “I don’t want to have a conversation with that guy”. I countered: “You don’t need to have a conversation. He can just sit there and say nothing”. No, she didn’t even want to be in the same room as Jason. The meeting was off. I told her the ball was now with her. And after this… radio silence from Kirsten.

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  1. StarsAwait
    2009-10-25 at 08:31

    Geir are you requesting to talk again? If you have a phone # for Kristen or anyone in OSA, please email it to me. If they don’t like me calling them I’ll stop but I want to question them.

    • 2009-10-25 at 08:58

      As I was very specific that the initiative was now with her, I have not requested another meeting with Kirsten.

      If you want to get hold of her, call OSA Int and ask for Kirsten Kitano. I will not give out people’s cell phones.

  2. Mac Stevens
    2009-10-25 at 08:43

    Yep. All my meetings with OSA folks left me with a worse impression of the Church of Scientology than if they had simply ignored me. I don’t think they realize what a poor PR job they do.

  3. StarsAwait
    2009-10-25 at 09:27

    ok thanks

  4. 2009-10-25 at 10:35

    Thanks for posting this information. Btw, the OSA person is Kirsten Caetano.

    • 2009-10-25 at 10:43

      Thanks, I will correct the blog post.

  5. thatsnotmyname
    2009-10-25 at 11:23

    “Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive”. The really sad, almost pathetic thing here is to see how the institutional lying is so pervasive. Imagine what this is doing to these people’s mental/spiritual well-being – they are being coerced to lie oft and repeatedly, and for what? To defend some one who has betrayed them in every way imaginable. And if it is true that some of the execs who were in SP Hall are “back on post”, what on earth does that say about the management of the Church? Top execs who have slavishly obeyed orders to write affidavits sanctifying DM that they know are false, at the expense of their own integrity and case gain. One can just about understand why they do it – the intense pressure, blackmail etc, but goodness me. What a pitiful state of affairs really.

    By the way, what language does a Norwegian speak to a Swede in?

    • 2009-10-25 at 12:21

      To illustrate: I was sitting in a restaurant with a Danish guy and a Swedish girl who tried to have a conversation. They simply couldn’t understand each other. I intervened and spoke Norwegian to both and translated in between them. They both would understand Norwegian if I didn’t speak too fast.

  6. concernedScn
    2009-10-25 at 11:34

    LOL, nicely done Geir!

    What you described with your OT 8 friend is yet another great example of “cognitive dissonance”. Many of these guys have too much invested…money-wise, family-wise, career-wise, etc. It’s easier to invalidate the hell out of yourself and your own observations – and figure “the SPs are just attacking us again”.

    Too funny regarding Jason Beghe. OSA people are such cowards.

    And yes, my viewpoint of OSA has dramatically changed too. It is perfectly clear to me (and others) that their sole mission is to harrass, smear, force family/friend disconnections, and generally make people’s lives miserable…and if anybody tries to do anything back, OSA plays the “victim” card and says, “SEE??? That guy is a SP! He’s trying to bring down Scientology!”

    Hey, has it ever occurred to you OSA people that you’re actively suppressing others? Forcing disconnections, smearing, spreading lies about good people, forcing employers to fire good employees who have disagreements with the Church…? Or is this whole “SP” thing only applicable to people who aren’t in the Church/OSA?

    Back to OSA – their PR is terrible – they never handle any situation, they only make it worse. The fact that they’re so well-funded by the Church is both good and bad. Good in the fact that they can smear people as much as they want, and Bad in the fact that they always manage to shoot themselves in the foot with everything they do.

  7. concernedScn
    2009-10-25 at 11:40

    Just to clarify this point:

    [quote]And yes, my viewpoint of OSA has dramatically changed too. It is perfectly clear to me (and others) that their sole mission is to harrass, smear, force family/friend disconnections, and generally make people’s lives miserable…and if anybody tries to do anything back, OSA plays the “victim” card and says, “SEE??? That guy is a SP! He’s trying to bring down Scientology!”[/quote]

    You don’t even have to “do anything back” to OSA… Even if you talk about what OSA has been doing to you (forcing disconnections, telling lies about you to your friends and family), they consider it a suppressive act because you are therefore “publicly speaking against Scientology” which is considered a High Crime.

    I think if OSA wasn’t so hell-bent on ruining people’s lives (whistleblowers, detractors, etc), the Church wouldn’t have so many “enemies” and their job wouldn’t be so difficult.

  8. Thalkirst
    2009-10-25 at 12:07

    Geir, did they provide any proof of their rebuttals in addition to the affidavits, or just said these answers?

    • 2009-10-25 at 12:24

      They just said this and gave me the affidavits to read.

  9. Miss Penguin
    2009-10-25 at 12:37

    Geir, have you spoken to your OT VIII friend since the first meeting? Has his viewpoint changed at all?

    • 2009-10-25 at 19:19

      I haven’t spoken to him since the meeting. I guess he is to much involved financially and family-wise to dare contemplate the truth in the current scene. I know his party-line toeing was shaken at our first meeting – before OSA got to him.

  10. KSW1Fan
    2009-10-25 at 13:06

    Hi OSA,

    on the Website “Religous freedom watch” is something posted what is called: Marty Rathbun in his own words. Did somebody take that publication from Marty from the staff notice board, recently? Did it hang there for several years? Since 2004? Is it not more likely that somebody (maybe you?) took it out of Marty`s Ethics file and posted it on that Website. I can give you an advice: “A clean heart can`t be hurt.” Ever heard about this?

  11. Hubbardianen
    2009-10-25 at 13:16

    I guess some kind of strange group engram has struck CoS since Miscavige took over.

    Regarding nr. 6 The church has never used the content of ethics folders to discredit anyone, Jason Alexander (OT VII) has reported that a guy was shouting stuff to him on the street that only could have gotten from his folder. There are probably more examples of this.

    If any hard-core scientologist or OSA reads this: Please, even IF Scientology is the only solution for a better freedom, it still cannot be forced upon anybody. People must be able to leave or come whenever they want, otherwise CoS must be regarded as a cult, dictatorship etc.

    Cancel Fair Game Policy Letter is my recommendation, it was a big mistake to write that PL.

  12. Hubbardianen
    2009-10-25 at 13:19

    Sorry, not Jason Alexander, I meant Peter Alexander. Have I been watching too much Seinfeld? 😉

  13. Maria
    2009-10-25 at 14:03

    I have no first-hand experience of abuses in the Sea Org, but dead agent on Marty et al doesn’t work for me.

    Marty wasn’t around when I got 10-20 phone calls per day from staff from MANY different posts and Churches for weeks on end demanding / ordering me to buy books, a threatened SP declare if I didn’t, and a late night visit from CMO staff to “help” me buy books. CMO?!? Since when does CMO sell books? Marty had nothing to do with crazy orders given to me, and several others I know on the subject of the 2D, “or else.” None of them had anything to do with the constant crush recruiting tactics used on my underage daughter, consisting of invalidation and haranguing, with her coming home crying and enturbulated because she was told she was a degraded being for not joining the Sea Org.

    They had nothing to do with the excessive demand for IAS donations made on the BRAND NEW person I sent in to one of the Churches last year, he was told that the IAS money would be used for lobbying in Washington. What?!? I thought we were free of politics. So much for sending people in to do Scientology services.

    No, discrediting Marty et al just doesn’t work for me. How about showing the OT8s that have resigned the excellent statistics touted at the last IAS event? Nah, I forgot, the three OT8s are all psychotic — hmmm… I think I like psychotic OT8s, can I be one too?

    OSA FOR GOD’S SAKES WAKE UP! I know you are good people given bad data and bad orders. Don’t defend off-policy and out-tech! FIX IT! Restudy the policies on handling PTS A situations and get staff to apply them so they are not CAUSING antagonism.

    • 2009-10-25 at 19:22

      Thanks for the data from your experiences.

    • Hubbardianen
      2009-10-25 at 21:06

      Jesus, what a story. Me as a public have actually had to pull my telephone jacket out because Scientologists on staff wouldn’t stop calling trying to sell me books.

      It has to do with the stats-up syndrome. The problem is, stats-up is a good thing, but basic human rights cannot be violated, under no circumstance.

      LRH should have rewritten those policy letters about “staff could basically get away with murder as long as stats are up”. Do not take that literally. *smile*

      Does the CoS understand what these kind of stories do to the public’s impression of Scientology? No wonder there are so many stories in the news. Wake up, it’s not the psychs or Anonymous. It’s CoS creating their own enemies.

      Unbelievable.

    • John Peeler
      2009-10-30 at 15:58

      Maria, Good point. A lot of this stuff was happening even BEFORE Marty or Miscavige were on the scene. Especially the hard-sell/crush reg tactics, the unrelenting phone calls, etsc… It’s only gotten worse and more intense with Miscavige at the helm.

  14. Shawn's friend
    2009-10-25 at 18:26

    It’s interesting how they scoff at you bringing a friend, yet found it quite acceptable to bring someone along to speak to you.

    • 2009-10-25 at 19:31

      And while I told them on beforehand, they staged an ambush. I like (it) to be direct.

  15. sherrymk
    2009-10-25 at 20:05

    “#4 Since 1982 only Guillaume Lesevre has been posted as ED Int”

    Really? Then how come on his letterhead his name is missing and how come he doesn’t sign his letters anymore? and how come he’s not listed anywhere on Scientology websites?

    How come there is no one but David Misavage listed on the RTC website although the I/Gs(Tech, Admin and Ethics) used to be listed?

    The depth of deception is almost incomprehensible. What do these staff members and public think they are defending? Certainly not Scientology.

    You do realize I hope Geir, that in no way have you lost your OTVlll friend. Once woken up, it’s impossible to just go back to sleep. If it’s any comfort, I have had more phone calls and emails from fellow OTs since going public than I could have even imagined. They all back you up 100% and are just bidding their time, getting their ducks in a row soon to be speaking out.

    Love,
    Sherry

    • 2009-10-25 at 20:11

      Thank you for your support, Sherry 🙂

    • thatsnotmyname
      2009-10-25 at 23:38

      “If it’s any comfort, I have had more phone calls and emails from fellow OTs since going public than I could have even imagined. They all back you up 100% and are just bidding their time, getting their ducks in a row soon to be speaking out.”

      Yes it is great comfort in fact. Thanks for saying this Sherry. It’s important for us on other continents with few allies around to know that there are other OTs waking up. This is the sort of news that REALLY helps, believe me.

  16. Cinnamon
    2009-10-25 at 20:22

    “She also said she was from the international office in LA. I wonder what she was doing in Oslo… if she came all the way from LA to see me. She said ‘I just happened to be in the neighborhood.’ ”

    When she said “I just happen to be in the neighborhood”, she meant … “of earth”.

    She wasn’t lying.

    • 2009-10-25 at 20:25

      I was more thinking “In the neighborhood of… yourself?”

  17. An Observer
    2009-10-25 at 20:35

    sherrymk :
    How come there is no one but David Misavage listed on the RTC website although the I/Gs(Tech, Admin and Ethics) used to be listed?
    The depth of deception is almost incomprehensible. What do these staff members and public think they are defending? Certainly not Scientology.
    Love,
    Sherry

    They are too busy fighting their imaginary war against their imaginary enemies who they believe are attacking them. They have no time to stop and think long enough to realize all of their problems are being manufactured internally be themselves. This has always been standard operating procedure for the Sea Org … keep everyone in a constant state of intense urgency and focused on their self-manufactured enemies.

  18. Axiom142
    2009-10-25 at 20:46

    Well done Geir!

    The fact that OSA are sending out their operatives all the way the ‘the land of the midnight sun’, from LA shows that you have them very worried. Kirsten’s comment of “I just happened to be in the neighborhood” made me laugh. Doesn’t sound at all phoney does it? And, not being able to be in the same room as Jason Beghe – sounds like her ability to confront is somewhat lacking.

    I can’t believe that they keep on trotting out these affidavits and keep expecting people to just believe them without any corroborating evidence. If someone holds a gun to your head, you are liable to say anything. I wonder if they will offer you a tour of the Int Base so that you can see things for yourself? Miscavige keeps on claiming that the CoS is expanding faster than ever, so why don’t they publish the stats for each continent for the last 10 years, so we can judge for ourselves? When I had doubts a few years ago, I asked to see the stats for the UK, and was told that I couldn’t see them. I later heard from a guy in CLO that the UK stats were in long-term Emergency (actually Danger) and that was before the advent of Anonymous.

    I also asked some other ‘difficult’ questions and received lies for answers. This prompted me to ask “Why are they lying to me?” When I continued to ask awkward questions, I was told that I was “under investigation for suppressive acts”, in an attempt to make me toe the line.

    I hope you friend wakes up soon Geir, but in any case you have shown yourself to be a true friend by giving him the truth and trying to stop him to wasting his life supporting the suppressive organisation that the CoS has become.

    Keep up the good work, you have the support of many good people. Hopefully many more OTs will have the courage to come out and say how they really feel.

  19. TRUTH
    2009-10-25 at 20:52

    Thank you Geir for exposing the CoS!
    It is very obvious that OSA terminals as well as everyone still connected to CoS are deeply PTS to DM (SP), therefore very blind to the truth that are spoken out. This includes Tommy D, Jessica F,Kirsten Caetano and others. They’v become robots and see DM(SP) as the only truth. That is how Nazi’s were with Hitler.

    Once Hitler killed himself, those Nazi’s stable datum crashed and lost the battle. This is what is happening with OSA and Tom Cruise (SP’s best friend). TC has already lost his position in Hollywood by being connected to the SP. His movies are crashing, his long term business partner is not by his side, his company is in deep trouble. He is now using other reputable actors in his films so people would be encourage to see his movies.
    If this is a sign of PTSness, what else would be?

    • Overdriver
      2009-10-25 at 22:32

      Just a quick note: Travolta’s story was very similar to Cruise’s story in that both was a kind of spokesman for the Church for a couple of years and after both disappeared as spokesmen…
      Regarding the meeting with OSA, Scientology looks like to become an ism. Unfortunately in isms people do not think…
      I back you up in “My positions” as what you state aligns with my observations or I think is honest and worth support.

  20. Susanne Maiers
    2009-10-25 at 22:55

    Many people wonder about these affidavits… Why don’t you post them for all to read?

    • 2009-10-25 at 23:07

      Because I did not get to keep any copies. One of them is floating on the Net somewhere…

    • Margaret
      2009-10-26 at 01:42

      Do these guys know that lying in an Affidavit is the same as lying under oath and could land them in jail?

      Does anyone have any details on legal measures being taken against Miscavige for physical assaults, etc?

  21. Axiom
    2009-10-25 at 23:54

    Thanks,Geir, for this interesting info that shows that OSA is getting increasingly worried and also ineffective!:) I totally agree with Sherry about a once awoken person will not go to sleep again but feel compelled to look further at least in secrecy to find out more of this;) I helped a friend today to find references to handle a begun communication about what´s going on in the church and I begin to understand what LRH might have gone through in his quest to make scientologists apply the tech.

  22. Smeso
    2009-10-26 at 01:05

    My opinion is that when you try to cinvince someone with a bunch of affidavits that have all been signed on the same day, then it is not a voluntary action on their part. It’s not likely that they all decided to write a statement on their own personal volition at the same time. Definitely ordered to be done.
    And I would like to see a list of names of those 1000 – 1200 people who are at the Int base. There weren’t that many when I was there in the nineties, and about half has left since, that I know of (I used to work in a department of 40 people, and I’ve managed to locate 14 of them on the Internet, and heard of a few others also being out, but not being able to find them yet, so who are all these people who supposedly are at the Int base these days?)
    Or maybe they just counted the number of posts being held, and most people have three posts each…
    As for Int being posted, you should have asked for the names of the people in the Exec Strata (org staff should be able to write to them and would like to know their names, right?)

  23. Smeso
    2009-10-26 at 01:41

    Also, they need to get new affidavits written if what you wrote about the content of the affidavits is true:
    “I read 8 of the affidavits. They were all sanctifying David Miscavige while demonizing Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder. That was the sole purpose of the documents – to show that Miscavige is perfect and that Rathbun and Rinder are the real SPs.”

    What about Steve Hall, Dan Koon, Jeff Hawkins, Amy Scobee and Bruce Hines?
    And Mariette Lindstein is still quiet…
    And what about the declaration from Larry Brennan.

    • 2009-10-26 at 08:43

      I know. But they see Marty and Mike as the real threat. Not the others. Not Anonymous. Not the Old Guard critics.

      • Smeso
        2009-10-26 at 11:44

        Well, they should look more closer to home for the real threat.

        If it isn’t written it isn’t true, but even when it is written it is not necessarily true, especially when it comes from OSA…

        But what was the point in lying about the number of SO-members at Int? I don’t think there were ever more than 800 there, even before DM started to kick out most of those who hadn’t left already.

        Are the people at OSA so used to making up numbers that it just slipped out?

  24. TRUTH
    2009-10-26 at 04:18

    NEWS!!!! :))

    Hollywood Reporter published Paul Haggis’s letter or resignation from CoS:

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/search/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1004030246

    • Overdriver
      2009-10-26 at 08:57

      I can accept only one of his reasons…

      • 2009-10-26 at 09:06

        Which one, and why?

        • Overdriver
          2009-10-26 at 16:39

          What to begin with? The reason I accept is lying that there are no forced disconnections. This is such a downright lie that makes my hair standing. The reference is in the Ethics book. Suppressive acts: keep in touch with persons declared. This is one lie, obviously there are others. Simple.
          It would be great to open a topic for documenting the obvious lies showing the exact reference.
          So if someone disconnects for this, and particularly if he or she is involved, I understand.
          The second part is maybe a more sensitive subject. I think any Church has a right to take stand in questions it regards having something to do with morals if it does this in a correct manner. I do not want to discuss this in detail cause I do not want to be long now but another point is that marriage is historically a bond between two persons of different sex.

          • 2009-10-26 at 18:08

            Arguments for something because it historically been that way = Argumentum ad antiquitatem (the argument to antiquity or tradition) – a logical fallacy.

            • Overdriver
              2009-10-27 at 08:25

              Thank you for pointing this out. However in this case and in this context I feel it is the same as redefining words. You can of course change traditions and redefine words unless you do not arrive into a 1984 type of situation.

  25. Margaret
    2009-10-26 at 07:18

    “1. There has been no SP Hole/Hall”

    I think I counted 3, maybe 4 eye-witnesses to this one (Marty Rathbun, Tom De Vocht, Steve Hall, and some others).

    “2. It never happened that declared SPs have been kept on post.”

    Do “instant SP declares by DM” count? Seems that the whole upper mgmt was declared SP by DM at one point, if the above eye-witness testimony is correct.

    “3. There are 1000-1200 staff at the Int Base”

    Last I heard (I think from Steve Hall) was that Int base was down to a couple hundred. Not sure of the time frame.

    “4. Since 1982 only Guillaume Lesevre has been posted as ED Int”

    I guess he gets to be ED Int when he’s not in SP Hall, or digging ditches or cleaning out sewage.

    “5. The Int base is a posted place ”

    See 3. and 4. above.

    “6. The church has never used the content of ethics folders to discredit anyone”

    Yeah, right.

  26. 2009-10-26 at 09:43

    Can you imagine INT MGMT fooling around LRH using ‘declarations’? “We don’t have stats, Sir, but we have a whole bunch of Top Execs declarations that Scientology is doing GREAT!”

    I bet OSA would have been more effective if they had shown rising statistics instead of declarations. But they didn’t, probably because production stats aren’t worth showing.

  27. Disinfected
    2009-10-27 at 04:27

    Good TA there, Gere. But you know what? Don’t push their buttons by insisting on bringing in Beghe or anyone else, for that matter. Don’t throw away what access you are being given. Give them the chance to rebut your formula and then let us know how it comes out. My other suggestion? Tell them you are not so interested in declarations but would be interested in interviewing these people in private and making the judgement for yourself as to who is telling the truth. Just be sure to let someone know if you put yorself in their hands 🙂

    • 2009-10-27 at 07:27

      I said in the beginning of the encounter that I would be very interesting in relevant data as long as it didn’t include any adHom attacks. Kirsten replied; “No we won’t do that”. Then when we got to the hotel, it was all adHom. She needs to A) wordclear adHom and B) not answer questions she doesn’t understand or B2) stop lying.

  28. RJ
    2009-10-27 at 06:11

    Wow Geir!

    The level of incompetence and cowardice that OSA displays is just amazing!

    I know for a fact that if you were dealing with the GO that they would have enjoyed the randomity of Jason tagging along with you. Say what ya want about ’em they certainly weren’t cowards.

    Incompetent yes to a degree but OSA brings incompetence to all new heights or depths as the case may be.

    Did they actually think that you’d be impressed by a bunch of signed affidavits signed under possible duress ala Manchurian Candidate .i.e. “David Miscavige is the most kindest, most wonderful person I’ve ever known, he wouldn’t hurt a fly, the man is Scientology etc …”? I gotta admire you for keeping your TRs in Geir. It must of taken a lot to fight back the feeling of nausea!

    As Mostly Lurker pointed out did they think you’d be impressed with declarations that according to management which really means Miscavige, Scientology is going through “unprecedented explosive expansion”? Again well done on the TRs Geir! Me I’m a VI and a Pro TRs Grad and I’d probably be in fits of hysterics at that point!

    • 2009-10-27 at 07:31

      One day you might listen to the meeting yourself.

  29. Disinfected
    2009-10-27 at 13:55

    “The church has never used the content of ethics folders to discredit anyone”
    That is just a shameful lie. They have published and provided to the press what are clearly O/W write-ups and liability formula excerpts from Marty’s folders. Let’s keep this straight; the Church of Scientology maintains three sets of folders on every member, PC folders, Ethics folders, CF (Central Files) folders. The last is just correspondence and can be eliminated as no sensitive material is kept in those. Completed formulas and O/W write-ups usually go in the Ethics files and, less often, the PC folders. Now, when I saw that stuff published, I figured that the Church was using the loophole that this material, and Sec Check material, is not strictly confidential. The “I am not auditing you” R-Factor. The purpose of this lack of confidentiality is so that the material is actionable and you have to take responsibility for it. It is NOT supposed to be potential blackmail material. That said, I assumed that OSA would at least be honest enough to say “Yes, we used Ethics file material but that is not PC data and is not confidential.” The fact that that level of honesty is beyond them is telling. Very telling. Like Tommy Davis saying that disconnection is not practiced. Liar.

    • John Peeler
      2009-10-30 at 16:55

      As well, there are Personnel Files which contain your Life History write-up. You are required to fill out every sexual act you’ve ever done, including all drugs, how many times and when, as well as all of your friend and family connections. In the mid 90’s I was on an RTC mission at the Int Base called the “Int Data Base Mission,” I/Cs were Theresa Laner and Hiro Kimoto, Mission Ops was Jesse Radstrom. We went through every ethics folder, pc folder, and pers folder and entered data to the Incomm computer system per a checklist from RTC of points to enter. This included all data on your LH write ups, and anything considered to be crimes or relevent info from PC and ethics folders. All connections, including famil and friends (with addresses and contact info if available) were cross referenced on the computer system. In other words, if John Smith was listed as a friend by Joe Shlogs and Jim Boone, the computer would show the cross relationship. I was assigned all staff of Exec Strata and several divisions of Gold to input. The mission lasted several months and after completion, RTC staff as well as certain execs and HCO staff around teh base had access to the data base. The data base was also supposed to be exported to lower management units and eventually to HCOs of outer orgs for input purposes. I don’t know how far this got, but possibly an ex Incomm staff member would have more info on that. This is true!

  30. Martin
    2009-10-28 at 08:48

    If you want to know how trained DM was as of 1990, here is a link to a deposition of him where he Q&A’d endlessly almost and then finally answered “No” to the question, “Have you ever Graduated the Org Executive Course?”, hit ctrl-f to find it quickly, and scroll through the Q&A. The enigma of Miscavology continues:

    http://www.davidmiscavige.wikiscientology.org/text/Deposition_of_David_Miscavige%2C_the_Witness%2C_July_19%2C_1990_-_Part_1

  31. Shalashar Dekeres
    2009-10-29 at 14:15

    1: There has been no SP Hole/Hall

    Yup, all the first hand accounts of those that have been in there are all vicious lies, just like there was absolutely no physical abuse by staff, until there was.

    2: It never happened that declared SPs have been kept on post

    Really? So those that did their A to E did so for nothing then?

    3: There are 1000-1200 staff at the Int Base

    From what I gather from people who have recently left, there are more exes that left because of Int then there are people in Int.

    Sadly, without being able to go in and physically count heads, working out even rough numbers would be difficult to counter.

    Interesting that they couldn’t provide an exact number though.

    4: Since 1982 only Guillaume Lesevre has been posted as ED Int

    That may be true. That doesn’t however discount information stating that when there isn’t an Event to be wheeled out to, he remains in the SP Hall.

    5: The Int base is a posted place

    Yup, now this I can understand. I might even go so far to say this is probably factual, why? Because no one in their right mind would volunteer to go there. Scientologists go in, Exes and SPs come out.

    6: The church has never used the content of ethics folders to discredit anyone

    Really? So what was in the Freedom Magazine special then?

  32. John Peeler
    2009-10-30 at 16:07

    Geir, Thanks for posting this. I too had my own run-ins with Kirsten Caetano after leaving the Int Base. When I started posting about abuses happening at Int in 2002 on ARS, I was working for a Scientologist owned company called Financial Choices. Osa figured out it was me making the posts, probably because I was the only recent MAA from the base who had left, and I had included that info in some of my postings. She and another OSA staff member came to my place of work and pulled me into the conference room with my boss at the time. She showed me printouts of my postings and wanted me to come into the HGB for a metered interview regarding them. I refused the interview and was immediately fired from my job. I had only been out of the SO for about a month, so had hardly any money to support myself at the time. Kirsten and other OSA staff followed me pretty much everywhere I went and had someone posted outside of my home to keep an eye on me I guess. I finally had to call the police to have them cease. I called Kirsten and told her that if the harassment cont’d, they would be hearing back from me with an atourney and lawsuit. That seemed to do the trick.

  33. AnonLover
    2009-10-31 at 21:14

    “…When I told her it was Jason Beghe…”

    Well done Geir, very VERY well done! After reading about Kirsten’s part in the malicious handling of Nancy Many in Nancy’s book, reading this post brought a huge smile to my face!!

    /salute

    • 2009-10-31 at 21:22

      See the new post up in a few minutes 🙂

  34. 2009-11-04 at 19:40

    With all due respect, Geir, the comments are tl;dr, but if it hasnt been said, the fact data you posted (her answers) sounds like the same stuff they tell the public.

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