Home > Church of Scientology, Thoughts > And the Why is … *drumroll*…

And the Why is … *drumroll*…

The fact is that the Church of Scientology is in trouble, real trouble.

There is an inquiry in Australia, a raid in Italy, a ban in Russia (a sad tale of suppression of free speech), court cases in the US and elsewhere and news stories damning the culture of authoritarian and violent leadership coming from the very top of the church. And several high profile Scientologists leaving flanked by scores of top OTs. I’d say the church is heading for implosion.

There is plenty of analysis and speculations on other blogs and forums. A ruling sentiment is that David Miscavige is not the root cause of the problems of the church. I agree, and while I’m not the one to serve you a wall-o-text, I will simply serve my own conclusions with a few examples as catalysts:

Some logic to back this up:

  • If David Miscavige is an excellent leader, then Policy must be flawed to run the Church into this much trouble.
  • If David Miscavige is an SP, then LRH or Policy must be flawed to allow him to rise to the position of a church leader.
  • If David Mayo was an SP, then either LRH or the SP/PTS tech must be flawed to allow him to rise to the position of Senior C/S International.
  • If David Mayo was an excellent Tech person, then Policy and/or the SP/PTS tech must be flawed to let him be declared a Suppressive Person.

And then a few conclusions:

  • David Miscavige and David Mayo cannot both have risen to power in a Church were the founder, his tech, his ethics and his policy were all adequate.
  • The trouble in the church predates David Miscavige.
  • I believe the church turned a corner in the late 60’s where it became an authoritarian organization bent on self preservation at the expense of human rights.
  • LRH was a man. He was not perfect. Some seems to believe he was.
    Others seems obsessed with his imperfections. He did create abusive policies – policies that has caused much harm, like forced disconnections. Such must be canceled. I believe the creation of abusive policies is the Why for the troubles of the church.
  • “A real Why opens the door to handling.” (LRH)


  • I believe Admin (the church policy) should be rewritten – continually to accommodate for the learning process of the organization.
  • I believe Ethics should be taken back to a personal level and not be applied as a group tech.
  • I believe Tech should be delivered by anyone in competition with the church and let the free market take care of the rights of the consumer. Industry standards organizations can take care of accreditations if the consumer believes that to be of value.
  • I believe the tech should be made freely available to everyone so that anyone who wants can take what works for him or her.
  • I believe the tech can be of great value to many.

A graphic description of the current CoS:

The CoS as of today

  1. Mark A. Baker
    2010-06-22 at 22:05

    “Spot on, Pecan!”

    • 2010-06-22 at 22:11

      Thanks. Although I am repeating earlier published POVs in this blog post, I found it could be helpful to “concisify” my viewpoints via bullet lists.

  2. 2010-06-22 at 22:11

    Wow you got that graphic right in so many ways.

    In the BP world and church and other areas.

    I agree with the assessment too.


  3. Tommy
    2010-06-22 at 22:15

    Excellent,i agree in every single detail:)
    And this makes it a full circle,back too basics..
    Am I Mettayya? If you see me dead I will then live forever.I come to you in Peace I come to you as a Teacher I do not come as an officer of Church or Sect I come to you as a Man.I do not come as a God.I come to bring you wisdom. (HYMN OF ASIA, LRH
    India IS a interesting place;))

    • Overdriver
      2010-06-23 at 07:50

      “I do not come as an officer of Church or Sect” And another contradiction in the subject…

  4. Valkov
    2010-06-22 at 22:32

    Great post Geir, and thank you!

    I am reminded once again of Ron’s line from KSW: “Thetans without
    banks have different responses”. Even thetans with banks will have some degree of “different responses” because each person is basically an individual. Thus comes about the conundrum of “How do you create a lasting temporal organization that does not suppress the individual but instead actually increases individual freedom and power?”

    Well, the first attempt to do so has definitely failed.

    Great graphic! Perfect depiction of ‘straight up and vertical’.

    • Overdriver
      2010-06-23 at 07:51

      “organization that does not suppress the individual but instead actually increases individual freedom and power?” and what about the second? ๐Ÿ™‚

  5. Ackerland
    2010-06-22 at 22:37

    You have made these points before, but you haven’t done it as concise yet. I do wholeheartedly agree with the points you are making here. I only wish Marty Rathbun would see it the same way, too. He seems to be of the mind that all from LRH must be 100% correct no matter what.

  6. 2010-06-22 at 22:42


    I notice that in lectures like State Of Man, LRH cared very much and had a kinder, gentler disposition. Those were the earlier days.

    Something obviously went pretty far south in LRH’s later years, as can be seen by what has happened to the church.

    While I don’t obsess with LRH’s faults, you make a good point that Miscavige couldn’t be doing what he’s doing if LRH hadn’t allowed room for it.

    Afterall, as one of many possible examples, how tough is it to write a policy which says: Never fund-raise for orgs, period!

    Instead of that, LRH “over-wrote” or even “cross-wrote” policy (like cross-orders), in my opinion. The man liked to write….and write…..and write…….And that is why an indie and a koolaid can look at the same PL and yet have wildly different views. Too much room for interpretation, swayed toward whichever direction an individual wants to enforce it.

    Miscavige indeed would’ve been detected and tossed out by 1981 if LRH and his policy had been in-ethics in the fullest sense.

    Of course, I am perfectly perfect in every way so neener neener neener! ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Nemess
      2018-11-08 at 14:39

      A curious remark! BUT keep in mind that contradictions are intentionally built into other religions. They create confusion and the ability to manipulate followers. Hubbard knew this and deliberately introduced contradictions or did not care about their occurrence in order to brainwash his followers with the sole purpose: to have power over them and take their money.

  7. Terril Park
    2010-06-22 at 23:19

    “I agree, and while Iโ€™m not the one to serve you a wall-o-text, ”

    Says the man who would use one word where a hundred be better. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Totally agree with your why.


  8. Sam
    2010-06-22 at 23:20

    A general purge of proven abusive policy would be a good start.

  9. anonymuse
    2010-06-22 at 23:31

    ahahaah that’s a great one ๐Ÿ˜€

  10. 2010-06-23 at 00:00

    About half an hour ago I got a call from a Scientology parent that he cannot let me continue tutoring his children in math because I am declared a suppressive person by the Church He said that he cannot get any auditing if he lets me tutor his children.

    This is after I have been tutoring his children for past 3 years and they have been doing wonderfully well. I was declared a Suppressive Person two years ago because I was reading Ekhart Tolle and was also reading about Scientology on the Internet. I never took any overt action against Scientology. I only dealt with truth and even defended the truths in Scientology on Internet.

    The interesting thing is that I had not hidden this fact (of being declared suppressive) from the mother of the children I have been tutoring; and this was not an issue with her. But the father found this out only last week, and he now decided to disconnect.

    This is indeed a cruel and heart breaking policy of the Church.


    • 2010-06-23 at 07:08

      “he cannot get any auditing if he lets me tutor his children” — well that’s bullshit. Outside the Co$ he can get as much auditing as he wants.

    • Overdriver
      2010-06-23 at 07:58

      This is not just a cruel and heartbreaking policy. The rather heartbreaking thing is that Scientologists are seemingly not able to think for themselves. This kind of attitude from that parent and the attitude that Scientologists are doing by backing up a suppressive organization is in fact Suppressive. Actually I’ve never fully agreed with the idea of PTS/SP as I’ve never seen it was really codified only mystically defined. But in this case one can clearly say that. Scientologists clearly supporting the present organization are behaving suppressively themselves.

    • MostlyLurker
      2010-06-23 at 09:02

      Damaging their child education to obey church dictates. That’s stupidity on their part, and evil of the church.

    • Pekka
      2010-06-24 at 06:42

      Vinaire, that is terrible you were disconnected from your client.

      As bad as it is this happened to you, I wonder… what will happen to the mother? She had no problem associating with “an SP” (sorry), will they punish her? Send her to Ethics, give lower conditions? Maybe even declare her SP? If it gets to that point, what happens to that family? I am only guessing, but this is a very real scenario, one that plays out every day.

      I hope that father wakes up. Why must someone else say who can tutor his children? Why must the church dictate acquaintances, friendship and loved ones? How long will Scientologists allow this???

    • Nemess
      2018-11-08 at 14:46

      Scientologists are among the most unfree and stupid people on the planet.

      • 2018-12-13 at 18:44

        … a really thoughtful and intelligent remark.

  11. 2010-06-23 at 00:32

    Good though provoking article! This should but a dent in some of the armor on both sides- a much needed thing.

    ps: Love the graphic discription, lol

  12. glh
    2010-06-23 at 00:53

    You be the man Geir!

  13. james anderson
    2010-06-23 at 01:16

    A very good assessment of the situation.

  14. Marta
    2010-06-23 at 01:33

    From where I’m lookin’ your “concisification” is beautiful in its clarity, pure silk in its delivery, and speaks volumes in its simplicity. It’s a keeper! ๐Ÿ™‚

  15. John Doe
    2010-06-23 at 02:26

    Very forthright assessment, Geir. You are a very rational thinker.

  16. 2010-06-23 at 04:56

    Hi Geir,

    thanks for this clever piece!

    You speak a lot of truth in there. However I think that there is a more basic root cause: the tendency of the people involved to give up their own responsibility and allow another or others (LRH, DM, the president, God) to overpower themselves.

    If each of the people in the church had upheld their own responsiblity, the flow of insanity would have been stopped so many times that it could never have developed into such a massive stream.

    Now the peculiar thing here is that LRH created his movement to handle exactly that problem! And then instead of handling it, he made it even bigger! But now where it has become so big and so visible, it may pose the chance to finally break up and heal.

    Reminds me of a furuncle. As long as the inflammation is red and diffuse, not much can be done to cure it. It must become real big and “ripe” – then it can be
    opened and emptied out.

    That’s how this weakness that I call “mainstream disease” (lack of personal responsibility – dependency on leaders) looks to me. There is more than one of
    these furuncles. Hitler’s regime was one. The church of SCN is another. If you look around on this planet, there are several more of them. People first allow
    abusive traditions to overpower them and later carry these traditions forth. Depleted uranium tradition, genital mutilation tradition, polluting the environment tradition – the list goes on.

    It’s a way of justifying an overt by repeating it. What makes SCN special is that it wanted to heal this very disease and then got infected itself. I am curious how the next round will look!

    • Immortal
      2010-06-23 at 13:07

      Heidrun, I agree with you here. I’m rather recently out of the Church, maybe 6 months, and am working my way through my 35+ year journey to New OTVIII. Just a few days ago, I ran into the situation you posed above and this is where my attention lies right now. You said, “However I think that there is a more basic root cause: the tendency of the people involved to give up their own responsibility and allow another or others (LRH, DM, the president, God) to overpower themselves.” I also believe this is the main situation.

      I loved Geir’s post on this. However, I think if I don’t want to fall into the very same trap again sometime with another organization such as Scn or with another church or with God, I need to find the answer to the above. Thanks for posting.

    • Nemess
      2018-11-08 at 14:51

      “Now the peculiar thing here is that LRH created his movement to handle exactly that problem! And then instead of handling it, he made it even bigger!”
      – Moron! This does not mean to you that Hubbardโ€™s real goal was precisely the second.

    • Nemess
      2018-11-08 at 14:53

      Moron! Doesn’t this mean to you that Hubbardโ€™s real goal was precisely the second, hidden one?

      • 2018-12-13 at 18:45

        Calling others “Moron” is a sure way to let other’s quickly understand your real value in a discussion.

  17. 2010-06-23 at 05:57

    lol.. good one..

  18. 2010-06-23 at 07:14

    It took me a few months to come to that conclusion after I left the church and to write about it. Your post, and the graphic of course, is far more concise and is worth repeating over and over again until the message sinks in to the consciousness of all scientologists, independent or not.

    David Miscavige must be removed, but to think that this will complete the job is sheer folly.

    Salvaging the worthwhile bits of scientology technology from the dross introduced by LRH over the years may take a decade. Meanwhile, we who are delivering services will continue to deliver what our preclears need and want and are willing to pay for. By honestly looking at our results, we will eventually weed out the arbitraries. When the church stopped listening to students and preclears, it was only a matter of time until the orgs emptied out.

    Keep up the good work!

  19. 2010-06-23 at 07:14

    I see eye to eye with you about your evaluation. Sadly, many people in the freezone / independent field prefer not to see some points that you mention. But the good news is that many do.

  20. brendon
    2010-06-23 at 07:48

    Congratulations. You’ve spotted the problems and, knowing them, you can start moving forward and try to avoid some of the same mistakes,

  21. Overdriver
    2010-06-23 at 08:09

    Dear Geir, I agree.

    It is amazing how people trained in data evaluation courses, etc… in Scientology are incapable to use the same method to the subject of Scientology and to the Organization.


    Code of a Scientologist

    15: To stress the freedom to use scientology as a philosophy in all its applications and variations in the humanities.

    20. To make this world a saner, better place.

    • Nemess
      2018-11-08 at 15:07

      Their inability to use the same principles for Scientology suggests that THEM ARE INTENTIVELY SO PREPARED! And this was done to hide the true goals of Scientology, which are almost completely opposite

      • 2018-12-13 at 18:46

        Try making sense in your next comment.

  22. Tony DePhillips
    2010-06-23 at 08:19

    Great article Gier.
    I always love reading your logic.
    Something I got from this and I have noticed before. Somewhere along the line there seems to be an intention to start throwing Sea Org members out instead of correcting or helping them. I don’t get this. Most of these SO guys are valuable people. I can’t but think that David Mayo must have had some serious plus points. Even if he had screwed something up big time, (if he did) why couldn’t he be handled and still utilized?? Why did this guy have to become a big bad SP??? Makes no sense to me.

  23. 2010-06-23 at 08:23

    As always, Geir, I agree with pretty much everything you say, and admire your personal ethics and leadership qualities. It is good to have someone who really cares about doing the right, moral, ethical thing – with the courage to do so in public.

    I would add one insight of my own, please: you trace the turning point to the late 1960s. I agree. What LRH did in 1966/67 was to write the OT levels while high on drugs in Morocco. When he ran out of answers beyond Clear, he simply started making them up (he was a science fiction writer)! Persuading people to believe in false episodes on their track is dangerous, harmful and – sadly in some cases – has proved fatal.

    From that point onwards – and after all his excellent earlier work – Ron Hubbard was living a lie, in my personal opinion. Everything turned sour from that point onwards; everything we have now to deal with, if we care about the future of this knowledge, and its value to the human race and this planet. Some of us still believe that’s what we’re here to deal with.

    Great use of the Data Series, Geir – and that’s your Who and your Ethics, Tech and Admin Whys, no doubt about it.

    As Ackerland quite correctly points out, this is where I disagree with Marty Rathbun, who refused to answer my question as to his belief in the OT levels. He wouldn’t commit himself, one way or the other, on paper. If he still believes in the OT levels, he’s an idiot; if he doesn’t, he’s a hypocrite. I have a number of concerns about Rathbun, as do many other people, who dislike his ego-trip. Sadly, one of my observations about Scientology is that it produces super-heated egos – starting with LRH, of course!

    Keep up the good work, Geir, my friend; you are a man of real stature, of greatness (ref: LRH’s brilliant article, What is Greatness?).

    With love and respect, Robin & Adrienne

    PS: loved the cartoon – brilliant!!

    • 2010-06-23 at 10:05

      “Sadly, one of my observations about Scientology is that it produces super-heated egos โ€“ starting with LRH, of course!”

      This point is worth highlighting! Compare LRH with Buddha…

      LRH actually looked down upon Nirvana while trying to benefit by calling Scientology an extension of Buddhism. See Scientology 8-8008, written in 1952. The seed of super-heated ego was already there and it was guiding all his research.


      • Overdriver
        2010-06-23 at 22:29

        LRH’s definition of Nirvana is actually false.

    • Overdriver
      2010-06-23 at 22:34

      [comment deleted; violation of the rules of this blog; reference to upper level confidential material]

      • Overdriver
        2010-06-24 at 14:31

        OK. So I reword it. I’ve just found something in ancient wisdom which might correspond to upper level data. But that wisdom is not secret as it is in Scn.

  24. Valkov
    2010-06-23 at 08:35

    What happened to LRH, and how did he allow DM and cronies to take over?

    My first Auditor was a Class VIII, original OT6 who had a lot of ability. One day he inspected my work environment and concluded that an OT who went in and tried to handle that environment alone would be overwhelmed.

    It looks to me like LRH essentially was trying to handle the entire planet alone, from scratch. Yes, there were up and coming scientologists who were becoming more able daily, but there were also a lot of counter-intentions within the orgs from some people, as well as from without.

    LRH was not all-powerful. He eventually got overwhelmed. I think he spent much of his life in a condition of Coping.

    Nonetheless, I think he did enough R&D to leave us enough hard-won data to make another try at it. We are not giving up.

    Now we have to sort it out, get a better understanding through what happened to date, and keep on truckin’. Just as Geir and many others are doing.

  25. MostlyLurker
    2010-06-23 at 08:50

    What a great summary!
    Thank you! I fully agree.

  26. 2010-06-23 at 10:23

    “I believe the church turned a corner in the late 60โ€ฒs where it became an authoritarian organization bent on self preservation at the expense of human rights.”

    Late 60’s is probably when LRH’s paranoia became full blown. LRH was a brilliant man but very paranoid. The whole development of Dianetics and Scientology started with his effort to handle himself (and not necessarily to handle the conditions in the society). LRH failed to handle himself. But in this process he did come up with some interesting stuff that needs to be fully sorted out.

    Buddha was also a brillant man, and he was not paranoid. He was truly concerned about the conditions that one seems to “naturally” encounter in life. See WHAT BUDDHA TAUGHT by Walpola Rahula. This a very concise summary of Buddha’s teachings.


    • 2010-06-23 at 11:19

      LRH was not always paranoid. After much study of books on brain health, and after watching the deterioration of other people’s “case”, I am convinced today that he was well progressed in the process of plain and simple old age dementia.

      Many dementia symptoms can be found in the old LRH. Paranoia and outbreaks of fury are among them. His neglect and abuse of physical body health (smoking, obesity) would be congruent with the metabolic syndrome that leads to arterial plaque and the malfunction of all organs that need much blood – heart, brain, etc.

      The fact that he died from a stroke is also matching the overall picture. Medically there is simply a problem in blood circulation.

      Why did Buddha not suffer from all these things? Obviously he would have been a vegetarian and a non-smoker, so neither excess protein nor tons of red blood cells killed by the carbon monoxide in his air would have accumulated in his arteries and blocked the flow of blood!

      • Ackerland
        2010-06-23 at 13:45

        I have heard several times that Hubbard quit smoking in the later years.

        • MostlyLurker
          2010-06-24 at 00:09

          I remember the LRH Comm announcing LRH quit smoking, but I believe it was in 1985, a bit too late I would say.

  27. BLiP
    2010-06-23 at 13:27

    The “why” in relation to the current state of the “church” is that it is the natural, logical result of its own core beliefs and functions. Further, a review of *all* the evidence and the application of Occam’s Razor would result in the one conclusion that is being avoided: namely, Scientology does not work and does not help people.

    That Scientologists are not able to even entertain this logical conclusion speaks volumes as to the value of the tech in relation to increasing mental capacity, reducing the activity of the (so called) reactive mind, and in strengthening ethics so as to be able to face the consequences of one’s own actions.

    • 2010-06-23 at 14:06

      heh, if that is a logical conclusion in its entirety, I suggest you get your money back for that logic class.

      I do not subscribe to the idea that the result is necessarily the complete mirror of the original intent. Proving this is rather easy. Give it a try.

    • 2010-06-23 at 16:34

      Per my understanding there are no beliefs originally intended in Scientology. There are axioms and logics that require a careful study and understanding. To me these axioms and logics make a lot of sense as they are pretty much a reorgnization of ancient data, such as, the Cycle of Action from Vedas.

      There are processes in Scientology that do work. What makes a process work depends TO A LARGE DEGREE on what a person does with that process. The workability of all these processes boils down to “LOOKING” as explained at VINAIRE’S BLOG (you may click on my name to get there).


  28. 2010-06-23 at 15:28

    Hi Geir:
    I agree with a lot of the things you say here, except that you forget to mention the lack of personal integrity from the members of the Church who let themselves be abused, yes, many had good intentions but there is a limit to that.

    It was also the parishioners who also contributed and continue to contribute to the demise of Scientology by not having personal integrity and many who stayed quiet because they had vested intereses, call it money like for field auditors or others who also stayed quiet because of family connections. They all had a ‘reason’ and overlooked the fact that there was a much bigger game at stake.

    You asked recently where are the big beings like Gandhi and others? No, there are no more of those because no one wants to sacrifice anymore. Personal integrity and the truth have gone out the window in our society today and in the church.

    There are a lot of Class VIII or Ot VIIIs still inside the Church despite the lies they see perfectly clear, because it is more convenient to them.

    Some left simply because they were expelled. Why they did not leave out of their own accord and integrity? Well, because of that leaders like Ron and now Miscavige can abuse others.

    I personally have no horror stories to tell that happened to me inside the Church because I always applied what is true for me. I am not a big thetan but I left when I saw a lot of the abuses on others and when the infamous GAT came out. I lost a lot of money, my livelyhood all of my friends as a result of that. But I gained my personal integrity which has more value than anything in the world.

    David Miscavige was not elected by anyone to be the Chairman of the Board as there is no so called Board.

    I have not seen a single LEGAL document signed by LRH and notarized that says DM is the elected king. Marty Rathbun knows the true and he is not saying it. The sad part is that he was part of the oppressive regime and now people follow him and even promote themeselves in his blog, as if he has not contributed with the great crimes on humanity that they committed inside the Church when they had the power. Still no integrity…why adhere to a man who was part of the evil regime.

    LRH’s biggest mistake was creating that monster that the Sea Org is. There was a study done by some psychologists in the 70’s that people has the herd instinct and obey blindly, and to prove it they did a series of experiments which showed how people were willing to hurt others if they were ordered to do so, without inspecting and taking responsibility they did.

    Aida Thomas
    Class VIII Auditor

    • Marta
      2010-06-25 at 01:55

      Aida, I may be too late commenting for you to see this but as to your statement:

      “I personally have no horror stories to tell that happened to me inside the Church because I always applied what is true for me. I am not a big thetan but I left when I saw a lot of the abuses on others and when the infamous GAT came out. I lost a lot of money, my livelyhood all of my friends as a result of that. But I gained my personal integrity which has more value than anything in the world.”

      I would beg to differ that you are not a big thetan. Everything you wrote here speaks otherwise to me.

  29. auchraw
    2010-06-23 at 18:17

    I like where this is going but it fails to recognise that Hubbard did not create an imperfect tech. He opened a door into forms of mental manipulation which are far too dangerous to leave lying open for any deconstructed Freezoner to experiment with.

    Hubbard may have realised this himself, not being completely daft, with his emphasis on toeing the line and following his instructions to the letter.

    Scientology is dangerous, not because it is imperfect or out-of-date but because it fucks with our conscious and subconscious minds. It is essentially evil.

    All the ‘good Boy Scout’ moral messages about helping other people at all times and TWTH peel off the package and can be used anywhere by anyone.

    • 2010-06-23 at 19:12

      A rather fanatical post.

      There are those who fail to see anything wrong in Scientology.
      And there are those who fail to see anything right in Scientology.

  30. 2010-06-23 at 21:08


    Robin Scott above states: “What LRH did in 1966/67 was to write the OT levels while high on drugs in Morocco. When he ran out of answers beyond Clear, he simply started making them up (he was a science fiction writer)!”

    I have not yet heard this one. Do you or does anyone know if it’s purely rumor?

    Since it’s on your post, it’s important to verify this accusation. It could be a real key-in for some who visit here, especially if Robin Scott is actually OTVII. I don’t trust much on the internet about LRH. I’m just wondering where this “data” came from?


    • 2010-06-23 at 21:36

      It’s a rumor. I have seen personal accounts of people claiming to have knowledge of this. I have also read personal accounts of people claiming to have knowledge that this is pure bullshit. So, it’s a rumor. Or, it’s Robin’s opinion.

      • Overdriver
        2010-06-23 at 23:05

        There is a video of LRH “Scientology: The Shrinking World of L. Ron Hubbard”

        At 25:04 he was asked a question and maybe he was not on drugs but the way he answers is quite strange…
        It is also interesting that he gets into contradiction with himself a couple of times in the interview.
        He definitely looks “strange” in the whole interview.
        For me the strangest when he says he married twice and within 20 seconds he says he never had a second wife… creepy.

  31. 2010-06-23 at 21:32

    A side note: This blog post has fired up a thread on ESMB and on WWP. Comparing the responses over there, I thought I’d never see the day when ESMB out-rabbid’ed WWP. I almost feel like joining in on a discussion among the rational flock of sparrows.

  32. 2010-06-23 at 22:03

    Thanks for the answers, Geir.

    I have no interest in giving away any OT secrets, so, this question is for you, to the degree you are willing to answer publicly.

    You are New OTVIII. In your heart of hearts, are the OT levels really the truth?

    • 2010-06-24 at 05:48

      I will answer in a different way: In my heart they really work. That is what matters.

  33. 2010-06-24 at 09:58

    Wise Geir is Wise

  34. Songbird
    2010-06-24 at 17:40

    One most KNOW the rules in order to break them. This takes a certain amount of intelligence = judgment. Being a fanatical robot is easy, having judgment, not so much. Besides Scientology, a subject I know very well is music theory (I used to teach music theory). Some of the best composers in the world, broke music theory rules regularly, because, well, it just sounded better. Contemporary composer Andrew Lloyd Weber broke composition rules with excellent aesthetic results! When these music ‘rules’ were pointed out to him, he would say, excitedly, “Yes, I did break the rule there, didn’t I?”

    You can do anything you want (including breaking ‘the rules’), as long as you’re willing to take responsibility for the consequences. But most people cannot predict future consequences of their actions. This is covered very nicely in the PL called Prediction and Consequences. I use this reference all the time with my children and I back them up, no matter what they want to do, if they have looked at all the possible consequences for their actions.

    Hey, and I take exception, Geir, to your post about where are all the amazing people? Because, dammit, I’m pretty amazing. I’m raising 4 sons by myself (my proudest accomplishment/products, BTW), who are healthy sane, rational, funny, educated and loving human beings. I made sure they were not poisoned by vaccinations. They were raised on organic food. I gave up a career as a traveling performer because I wanted to raise them and have no regrets about my decision. The world will be (and already is) a better place because I made raising them my #1 priority. Comments?

    • 2010-06-24 at 17:44

      Only one comment; An excellent post.

  35. 2010-06-25 at 05:56

    Songbird: You **are** an amazing person, no question! All these years I’ve admired your posts, and I didn’t even know you were raising 4 boys all by yourself. No question, the world *is* a better place due to that. Me too—re my son, he is my greatest accomplishment and truly the joy of my life.
    Geir—excellent points. I love “A graphic description of the current CoS” ๐Ÿ™‚ I remember well when it changed from mostly tech to 3/4 “Management”. HUH? St. Hill was below the half way mark on the graph, with ALL above either ‘middle management” (BS)
    or you know what else.
    My best to all ๐Ÿ™‚

  36. Random guy
    2010-06-25 at 10:32

    Even as a “rabid anti” I admire your will to do this the hard way, using only your own observations and strict logic. Thumbs up and good luck!

  37. Han Solo
    2010-06-27 at 11:10

    … and after a long search I find a scientology practitioner ( Geir ) who is not theetie-wheetie about LRH – what a relief !!!

    3 cheers to you, Geir – let the sanity win !

    Han Solo

  38. 2010-06-30 at 00:13

    Dear Geir Isene,

    Loved this article. Pure logic and aligns very closely with my thinking.
    I had heard so many horror stories about David Mayo (years ago, when I was onlines and he was declared) and then found a video of him on Utube a couple of months ago. It was not recent but when it was made he appeared to be filled with life and quite personable.
    Reading what you have written was very calming for me.
    I also had many valuable wins with auditing and studying the tech.

    Thank you.

  39. Lauren
    2011-02-11 at 23:55

    I am an OEC, Cl IV auditor, OT VII ep who left Scn in 1981. Its hard for anyone to admit that any big-ticket purchase, any extreme contribution of time, etc., was mistaken.

    Yes, things in Scientology work. Anytime a group of (usually) young, idealistic people can be led to believe in a cause, and with the right amount of rigid framework, goals can be accomplished.

    But that doesn’t mean that Scientology is beneficial as a whole. There is much degredation of staff members and a huge focus on status and material well being. There’s a huge focus on status elsewhere as well, but I believe it is damaging to entangle greedy motives with idealistic objectives.

    I can’t believe I wasted so much of my life in Scn. I could have learned many of the same things in a shorter amount of time in a much more nurturing atmosphere (and could have avoided a lot of LRH fiction as well.) I definitely believe Scientology is damaging to familes and individuals.

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