Home > Church of Scientology, Getting something done, Thoughts > OSA, Anonymous and Marty

OSA, Anonymous and Marty

What does OSA and Anonymous have in common?

Well, I covered that in an earlier post. But here’s a current example that illustrate the black and white viewpoints of two camps.

Before we start generalizing widely, it serves us well to understand that OSA is not a homogeneous group. Neither is Anonymous. There are individuals of great variety in both camps and various sub groups in Anonymous.

But I do see an overrepresentation in both camps of those who go to great lengths nurturing their own fixed ideas. It may be called fanaticism and probably should.

OSA is spending energy demonizing Marty Rathbun. They have gotten current Int Base staff to write declarations stating that Marty is all bad. They have tried to smear him left, right and center through the media and in one-to-one meetings with prominent Scientologists.

Over at the WWP board, Anonymous is spending energy demonizing Marty Rathbun. Most posters go to great lengths in smearing him right, left and center.

Both OSA and a very vocal sub group of Anonymous seem to think that Marty is intending to take over the Church of Scientology.

I believe both are wrong.

Marty may very well be the biggest challenge the church has today – a much bigger challenge than Anonymous ever was. He is effectively corroding David Miscavige’s power base, something that Anonymous in some ways is even strengthening with some of the extremist views popping up at WWP. The original Message from Anonymous marked the beginning of a great effort and seriously impacted the church with massive demonstrations. Anonymous has since lost interest, gone off to help Iranian democracy and less serious stuff. Left are a group overrepresented by fanatics, being irrelevant or even a turn-off to those who know little of the church.

There are obvious differences in opinions between OSA and Anonymous, and most of the time they are at the opposite ends of a very long stick. But in some cases, it seems the stick is bent in a circle and the ends somehow connect.

I have spoken a great deal with ex Int Base staff, including Marty. He is not about to take over any church. Neither is he about to form his own. He is very much excited about how communities are built – like in the world of Free and Open Source Software and that of Wikipedia.

He may be good or bad, I don’t much care. He is effective in helping to expose and thereby stop abuses in the church, and in that I do care.

Marty and the cake

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  1. 2009-10-02 at 22:26

    Remember the old saying: First they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. That’s what is going to happen. Damn, that cake looks good!

    • RJ
      2009-10-03 at 09:32

      Yeah I know I’m getting hungry just looking at the picture!

  2. 2009-10-02 at 22:27

    By the way, does anyone see a resemblance between Marty and Gene Hackman?

    • RJ
      2009-10-03 at 09:39

      Now that you mention it. He does sorta remind me of Jimmy Doyle in the French Connection.

  3. Koos
    2009-10-02 at 22:48

    I am anonymous but please do not paint me with this sweeping brush. Anonymous is not a “group”. I am an individual who chooses to fight the crimes of Miscavige anonymously as I do not want to be fair-gamed. I support what Marty is doing 100% but do understand what you are saying about the motives are some. However, there are many like myself who choose to fight the fight anonymously. Rather say “some anonymous protesters” as it really is unfair to make this broad statement.

    • 2009-10-03 at 07:18

      I believe I went a long way not to generalize in my post. The post was not intended to include you or anons like you. I did point to the anons posting at WWP – and on most threads I have seen there, the majority are towing the smear campaign.

  4. TRUTH
    2009-10-02 at 22:55

    Thanks for some very valid points. But since I know Marty very well I would like to make clear that it is not true that “he may be good or bad”, he is an AMAZINGLY GOOD being. A very effective, kind, productive and powerful being who is getting the job done. He is compassionate and understanding. He has zero self-importance. I read the lovely post you wrote about Jason Beghe, and I’m sure since you have now met Marty, you will agree with me about how wonderful he is too.
    Also, if Anonymous is in fact helping with Iranian democracy that is a truly great thing. It is not of lesser importance than helping free the C of S from its suppressive leader. But I understand your point.

  5. RJ
    2009-10-03 at 03:38

    Funny you should mention the Iranian thing Geir and Anonymous. Basically it proves to me that they are either the witting or unwitting tool of the CIA and the Neocon’s Program for a New American Century or PNAC.

    OSA on the other hand has always been the willing tool of CIA and the State Department ever since the glorious “victory” over the IRS. Practically every Freedom article was pro US policy, especially during the war with Serbia over Kosovo where you couldn’t pick up a “Freedom” mag that didn’t have an article about the false “genocide” which in fact was a civil war, over there.

    To me watching them fight each other is like watching “Punch and Judy”.

    On the other hand like you Geir, Marty is an individual who is posting about what he sees as injustices who like you has a group of independent supporters who know something is wrong with the Church and want to fix it.

    • Chris
      2009-10-03 at 18:09

      RJ :
      Funny you should mention the Iranian thing Geir and Anonymous. Basically it proves to me that they are either the witting or unwitting tool of the CIA and the Neocon’s Program for a New American Century or PNAC.
      So if I happen to be a card carrying member of the Republican party who doesn’t deny the Genocide that used to occur in the Balkans,I’m a pawn of the CIA?????????
      And as a neoconservative myself(a conservative with all the tastes of a liberal,just pro-victory and all) I find it hilarious you still think PNAC operates as a group.
      PNAC kinda faded away after 2006 what with all the leftists saying the War in Iraq was a lost cause.Why they didn’t rebound after the surge worked is beyond me.
      Sorry geir for bringing politics here(especially American politics,especially volatile) but I feel I need to stand for myself and my own political self-determinism.

      • Chris
        2009-10-03 at 18:10

        But please feel free to edit the message so my words appear out of the damn quote box 🙂
        Your blog’s quote system always confused me.

        • 2009-10-03 at 18:32

          I didn’t program it 😉 Maybe I should.

      • 2009-10-03 at 18:32

        Don’t get me going on this subject…

      • RJ
        2009-10-03 at 19:34

        Wow your the first person I’ve seen ever to admit being a neocon!

        I’ll let Mick and the boyz ‘splain:

        http://www.last.fm/music/The+Rolling+Stones/_/Sweet+Neo+Con

        I guess you must be one of the unwitting ones I mentioned.

        • Chris
          2009-10-03 at 20:21

          “Wow your the first person I’ve seen ever to admit being a neocon!”

          Neocon is a word that has very much been hijacked by the American left to mean something along the lines of “Bush supporter” much the same way “Communist” was hijacked to mean Stalinist(though through careful eval on my part I can’t help but think all Communist states never get past the dictatorship of the proletariat or reverting to primitive Nationalism or Personality Cultism to accomplish it’s aims,which get more and more corrurpt as the State remains)
          I like to tell myself I’m following in the like of intellectuals such as Christopher Hitchens(though he doesn’t call himself a neoconservative).

          • RJ
            2009-10-03 at 21:37

            The word neocon hasn’t been “hijacked” by anyone to mean “Bush supporter”.

            It is a political faction that is described as follows:

            “What the neocons did was simply switch allegiances from the old Soviet Union to the United States, taking their hotheaded Trotskyist temperament with them – and finally aspiring to lead a world revolution with the United States government at its head. When George W. Bush announced the launching of what he called a “global democratic revolution,” he was merely echoing the neo-Trotskyist rhetoric of his closest advisers and the intellectual movement from which they sprang.”

            You can read the rest of the article at this link:

            http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2009/09/20/irving-kristol-rip/

            • Chris
              2009-10-04 at 02:13

              “The word neocon hasn’t been “hijacked” by anyone to mean “Bush supporter”.”
              Oh for the love of God,please don’t try to revise history.At EVERY SINGLE political protest I’ve been been to the last Administration,the leftists ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS yelled at the Bush Supporters “Neocons” as if it were a derogatory reference.
              Oh and the article was warm,quite warm but not warm enough.We were for the most part trotskyists but like Christopher Hitchens on 9/11,”Reality slapped us across the face” and we grew up with the survivor’s familes and the nation for a time…
              Of course people like you interpret this as a CIA or OSA plot or the like and never realize just how intellectually complex all this was.
              Oh and Hitchens has a video addressing people such as yourself.2 in fact.


              http://www.youtube.com/user/patcondell
              Pat Condell is a nice resource to cognite new political positions too 😉

  6. ExKane
    2009-10-03 at 05:43

    Two questions: 1. What kind of corrosion has Marty caused to DM’s power base as you say? Obviously he’s done some damage but it’s hard for someone who isn’t “in the know” like me to know how much/what kind of damage.
    2. Do you think there’s any chance Marty could successfully get the police/FBI involved in the situation at the Int Base? I’m no law expert but surely the SP Hall constitutes some form of unlawful physical or psychological imprisonment.

    • 2009-10-03 at 07:29

      1. He has caused several prominent Scientologists to doubt and then to leave. The Truth Rundown (and especially Marty in that) did irreparable damage to church management.
      2. I believe that is a possibility.

      • Anonymous for a reason
        2009-10-03 at 09:10

        as I have said before – “there is a fine line between genious and insane…”
        I think I should be the one who actually evaluates that “expression”, by the way. .) lol You know some of what I am thinking about, Geir. 😉
        I have a q for u, Geir:
        My purpose in life is: Get human rights in on this planet before my body death, both inside and outside of Scn. Would you like to tell me exactly what u think when I ask u the following: Should I do the grades and OT-levels in or out of the official church walls? 🙂 I will apreciate an answer asap. Have a great and fine day, my very good friend. 😉

        • 2009-10-03 at 09:14

          Given the current scene in the CoS, I would advice to not do the Bridge on the inside.

  7. Hubbardianen
    2009-10-03 at 06:46

    All of these internal battles between Miscavige and ex-scientologists are such a waste of time. It’s strange how ONE PERSON can control so many others, we’ve seen this before in dictator countries. Church of Scientology must adapt to democracy rules.

    Common elections. Equality before “scientology law” and “real laws”. Hard fact evidence. Witnesses.

    But first..? Miscavige off the throne. How is that accomplished?

    • 2009-10-03 at 08:07

      I believe it can be done by corrosion (like it is being done now) or with serious investigation through criminal charges (ohysical abuse, financial fraud, …)

  8. Thalkirst
    2009-10-03 at 07:25

    With all due respect, something is not right about Marty. I definitely like his idea, and the direction he took with loosely connected independent communities is probably the future of the Scientology movement and the right way to go.

    But, I just can not overlook the fact that he was second-in-command after DM and he was selected by DM to that post. We know how DM is, so it does not take too much imagination to see what kind of characteristics were needed to gain DM’s trust.

    He is not really forthcoming with information about that, and pretty much blames DM for everything that is wrong with the Church, which is simply not possible. I can’t really trust him until he clears this up. I am sure he has changed a lot since he left the Church, but it is still disturbing. My biggest beef with the Church was never admitting any wrongdoing, and Marty, while admitting some things done wrong, did not overdo this either.

    Also, he is organizing now the independent community, so he is going to have access to all personal and contact information of these independent Scientologists.

    I can accept that he has no intention now to take over the Church or start a new one, but being in the center of all “indie Scn” commlines is a good start if he ever considers doing this.

    I served in the Sea Org for 8 years, so understandably I have some trust issues. I advise caution regarding Marty.

    • 2009-10-03 at 08:08

      Scientology like Free Software Communities would be uncontrollable by any one person or group.

    • RJ
      2009-10-03 at 09:46

      Gawd and I thought I was this board’s local paranoid!

      Look Marty is a cool dude all you have to do is communicate to the man. He isn’t anything like Miscavige.

      • Thalkirst
        2009-10-04 at 07:55

        I did communicate to him. My opinion has not been changed by it. His idea is cool, though and I can support it.

  9. Been There
    2009-10-03 at 08:33

    Geir: Someone will always have to be in charge. If only to ensure KSW. If not standard tech will be lost. There must be checks and balances though as no one man is Ron. We need to follow policy for real not further alter it because of DM’s insanities.

  10. Anonymous for a reason
    2009-10-03 at 09:23

    Geir, I have a q for u.
    What do u think about my sit re doing the bridge in or outside of the official church walls?

    Have a great and fine day even though it is raining .)

    • 2009-10-03 at 16:34

      Already answered.

  11. Ackerland
    2009-10-03 at 16:35

    RJ :
    Funny you should mention the Iranian thing Geir and Anonymous. Basically it proves to me that they are either the witting or unwitting tool of the CIA and the Neocon’s Program for a New American Century or PNAC.

    That’s one of the most stupid things I have heard in my life.
    First we’re paid by the psychiatry, by big pharma, then by German secret service and now by the neocons?

    Contrary to what they are saying, the people behind PNAC don’t give a flying shit about democracy and whether other countries have oppressive regimes as long as these regimes forward the interests of the USA. If it were for them, they’d have another Shah in power over there again. Luckily, the PNAC was doomed from the outset because it had people at the helm that don’t know wtf they’re doing except for funneling more money into their own pockets.

    Been There :
    Geir: Someone will always have to be in charge. If only to ensure KSW. If not standard tech will be lost. There must be checks and balances though as no one man is Ron. We need to follow policy for real not further alter it because of DM’s insanities.

    You are forgetting that Scientology did bad stuff before David Miscavige already. For instance, Operation Snow White and Freakout were ordered and executed under Hubbard.

    I am convinced that any organisation that follows Hubbard’s KSW and all of his policies to the letter will inevitably result in a suppressive organisation stifling free thought, and not having any checks and balances. Why do I believe it to be this way? Let’s take a quick look at KSW series 1:

    Therefore actions which neglect or violate this Policy Letter are HIGH CRIMES resulting in Comm Evs on ADMINISTRATORS and EXECUTIVES.

    I once had the idea that a group could evolve truth. A third of a century has thoroughly disabused me of that idea. Willing as I was to accept suggestions and data, only a handful of suggestions (less than twenty) had long-run value and none were major or basic; and when I did accept major or basic suggestions and used them, we went astray and I repented and eventually had to “eat crow”.

    This point will, of course, be attacked as “unpopular”, “egotistical” and “undemocratic.” It very well may be. But it is also a survival point. And I don’t see that popular measures, self-abnegation and democracy have done anything for Man but push him further into the mud.

    I believe these quotes speak for themselves. And please don’t tell me this has been taken out of context. It is the very nature of quotes that they are taken out of context.

    Because, with the KSW in mind, you seriously have to ask yourself how a despotic leader like Miscavige could ever have gotten power over the organisation?

    • 2009-10-03 at 16:41

      Keep it short. Please.

    • Been There
      2009-10-03 at 18:33

      An organization without ksw will not end up being Scientology.

    • RJ
      2009-10-03 at 19:50

      “That’s one of the most stupid things I have heard in my life.”

      You must be hearing voices in your head or something because I didn’t say it I posted it. Also Anonymous just happened to jump on the Iranian election band wagon which just happens to align with current US foreign policy to demonize the Iranian government yet their hasn’t been a bo peep about any other repressive regime in the area. Why is that?

      “I am convinced that any organisation that follows Hubbard’s KSW and all of his policies to the letter will inevitably result in a suppressive organisation stifling free thought, and not having any checks and balances. Why do I believe it to be this way?”

      Because you are presumptuous.

      Why don’t you post the whole policy where Hubbard explains why he came to the above conclusions?

      • 2009-10-03 at 19:56

        Please don’t post the whole policy here. Instead link to it somewhere.

      • Chris
        2009-10-03 at 20:30

        “Also Anonymous just happened to jump on the Iranian election band wagon which just happens to align with current US foreign policy to demonize the Iranian government yet their hasn’t been a bo peep about any other repressive regime in the area.”

        Okay my fellow neocon freedom fighters it’s time to preemptively hijack this thread!(sarcasm)
        Why in the hell are you defending the Suppressive Implanter Dictatorship of Iran?Do you enjoy holocaust denial,election fraud,sodomy,censorship,beautiful women getting bullets in their brains,mass murder,and possible nuclear annihilation?
        Ask yourself this,ask it honestly.
        Is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad existentially any different from David Misacvige?
        What about Saddaam Hussein?
        What about Napoleon?
        What about Osama Bin Laden?
        What about Adolf Hitler?

        • 2009-10-03 at 20:47

          Holy Easter Bunny. I sense a clash of the Titans here. Fore!

          • Chris
            2009-10-03 at 21:01

            “Holy Easter Bunny.I sense a clash of the Titans here.Fore!”

            Let’s just hope RJ doesn’t become a Gaia to my Kronos and intellectually castrate me with her bare hands.(Oh noes)

            And if you got that reference to Greek Mythology,you’re a VERY cool person. 😉

        • RJ
          2009-10-03 at 21:28

          Gawd typical neocon rhetoric!

          Where exactly did I “defend” the Iranian government?

          Actually a rhetorical question because no where did I defend it.

          Ergo your “argument” is completely disingenuous.

          I just find it interesting that Anonymous gets all hot and bothered by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad when in fact there are other more repressive regimes in the immediate area, and why does it just so happen to serendipitously align with US foreign policy and CIA’s covert activities in the region that have been ongoing since the ouster of the Shaw?

          A question you never bothered to answer in your tirade.

          • Chris
            2009-10-03 at 22:06

            The only reason anonymous gives a damn about Iran is because it was “cool” to do so.It is still cool hence it continues.
            On /b/ if you talk about Operation Chanology in the Present Time you get your personal details doxed and leaked and you get your current IP permabanned.Why?Because it’s not “cool” anymore.
            Anonymous is at best a windsocket that blows with the prevailing wind.At the end of the day they’re still a bunch of basement dwelling nerds and Haxors who have nothing better do with their lives.The fact that Project Chanology exists is a testament to horribly done inefficient operations by OSA and their ensuing blowback.
            And with regards to you defending the Iranian theocracy,I detected you being an “apologist” rather than an outright defender as such.Sorry for not being clear enough.

            • RJ
              2009-10-04 at 01:26

              OK.

              However in order to be an “apologist” it would mean I’d have to give a damn and I don’t really care what kind of regime Iran has since I don’t live there and I personally feel meddling and other peoples countries and there politics is a good way to end up as a target for terrorism speaking of “Blow Back”.

      • Chris
        2009-10-03 at 20:32

        Also last time I checked,the invasion and liberation of 2 countries(Iraq,and Afgahnistan)were far more than just “bo peeps”.

      • Anonymous
        2009-10-04 at 02:23

        Sorry Isene that this one turned out so long, again. But I hope you appreciate that arguing a certain point of view must encompass a sound explanation.

        RJ :
        Also Anonymous just happened to jump on the Iranian election band wagon which just happens to align with current US foreign policy to demonize the Iranian government yet their hasn’t been a bo peep about any other repressive regime in the area. Why is that?

        I suggest you read
        this
        before you continue to repeat your conspiracy theory. Chris actually hit the nail right on the head in his reasoning why anons lend support to Iranian youth. Yes, I am convinced the media has had much influence regarding the image of Iran in the US, and I agree with you, that media image is extremely one-sidedly pro-west. I don’t trust western news sources any more about news from the middle east than i do the regime’s news papers.
        Let me restate: My views on the role of the US in the middle-east much more correlate with yours than with those of Chris.

        RJ :
        Why don’t you post the whole policy where Hubbard explains why he came to the above conclusions?

        Are you kidding? Isene is already now giving me a hard time about my post lengths. Now to answer why I don’t think Hubbard’s stated reason in KSW makes any difference:

        Would you accept an explanation that your home country will abolish democracy because “it didn’t work out”, and from now on your head of state will not listen to suggestions from others, because “listening to others has always led to disaster during his time of presidency”? Because that is in effect what Hubbard is arguing to support his “Scientology must be undemocratic” assertion. An undemocratic organisation can only work with a “benevolent dictatorship” to the benefit of its members. You call me presumptuous. Would I be allowed to call you presumptuous, too? Since your stance seems to imply Scientology would always create such a benevolent dictatorship, and all of this in the light of Miscavige’s current regime that he built up even when LRH was alive.

        • 2009-10-04 at 10:27

          I gave you slack here on the length since you apologized, and since it was a good post.

          I believe that either: a) the church must be democratic or b) it must have competition.

        • RJ
          2009-10-04 at 20:12

          You fail to distinguish the technology from the organization. They are two different things. In KSW he is talking about the technology not the structure of the organization.

          Also there is no such thing as a dictatorship benevolent or otherwise, organizationally within Scientology, that is exclusively Miscavige’s “bright idea”!

          By the way a person who claims to be the “Chairman” of a board that has long ceased to exist!

          If you bother to read more than one policy before making your assertions and protestations. You will find that the organization itself allows for democratic or at least of form of republication control directed by various committees and councils that represent every interest within and outside of the organization.

          These are covered in what is called the Organizational Executive Course or OEC Volume 7 under the section regarding Advisory and Executive Councils or Committees.

          No one person has a say on how the organization is supposed to be run unless it is agreed upon by these various councils or committees which are represented by representatives appointed by the Scientology staff and public who form an actual board of directors and a chairman who must concur with the other members.

          What Miscavige has done is taken this whole system of checks and balances and perverted it beyond all recognition to the point where he as I’ve said, assumed the the false position of “Chairman” of a non existent “Board”. A pretense! Since he has eliminated any actual board members by fiat who do not go along with his crazy schemes!

          The last two known members were Warren McShane and Marty Rathbun!

          In other words he has taken the whole Scientology organizational structure and reduced to one individual who has absolute control . Even Hubbard didn’t wield that much power over the organization! Since all of his policies and directives had to be finally approved and accepted by the Directors of the Church of Scientology of California after being passed on by the International Board. Read the HCOPL 6 Mar 65 Policy the Source of which is in OEC Volume 0.

          As far as I’m concerned you are barking up the wrong tree since Scientology policy correctly applied gives one, one of the more democratic religious organizations on earth were anyone can have a say on how the organization is run, if they’d bother to participate.

          • 2009-10-04 at 20:52

            I truly believe that LRH tried his best at ensuring the organizations had the proper checks and balances. The whole structure of CST(&ASI)/RTC/IAS/CSI(&CMO/WDC) is a very good system for an organization given that it would have been properly implemented. The fact is it didn’t come to fruition and the sad thing is that LRH did not foresee it. I believe that however good the structure, it still did not embrace the Scientologists to the point of encouraging participation in the administration of the religion. It should have been more democratic or there should have been allowance for competition.

            Apart from that; Pretty please with cherry on top: Shorter. I’m feeling like a card dealer in Vegas this evening with a stack of yellow cards here.

      • Ackerland
        2009-10-04 at 02:24

        Sorry Isene that this one turned out so long, again. But I hope you appreciate that arguing a certain point of view must encompass a sound explanation.

        RJ :
        Also Anonymous just happened to jump on the Iranian election band wagon which just happens to align with current US foreign policy to demonize the Iranian government yet their hasn’t been a bo peep about any other repressive regime in the area. Why is that?

        I suggest you read
        this
        before you continue to repeat your conspiracy theory. Chris actually hit the nail right on the head in his reasoning why anons lend support to Iranian youth. Yes, I am convinced the media has had much influence regarding the image of Iran in the US, and I agree with you, that media image is extremely one-sidedly pro-west. I don’t trust western news sources any more about news from the middle east than i do the regime’s news papers.
        Let me restate: My views on the role of the US in the middle-east much more correlate with yours than with those of Chris.

        RJ :
        Why don’t you post the whole policy where Hubbard explains why he came to the above conclusions?

        Are you kidding? Isene is already now giving me a hard time about my post lengths. Now to answer why I don’t think Hubbard’s stated reason in KSW makes any difference:

        Would you accept an explanation that your home country will abolish democracy because “it didn’t work out”, and from now on your head of state will not listen to suggestions from others, because “listening to others has always led to disaster during his time of presidency”? Because that is in effect what Hubbard is arguing to support his “Scientology must be undemocratic” assertion. An undemocratic organisation can only work with a “benevolent dictatorship” to the benefit of its members. You call me presumptuous. Would I be allowed to call you presumptuous, too? Since your stance seems to imply Scientology would always create such a benevolent dictatorship, and all of this in the light of Miscavige’s current regime that he built up even when LRH was alive.

  12. Ackerland
    2009-10-03 at 16:47

    I was answering to two people in one post, plus adding a few quotes. So my actual text is not that long.

  13. Soderqvist1
    2009-10-03 at 17:22

    Soderqvist1: KSW is not a problem per se!
    I can use Scientology, or reject it, but I cannot change anything in Hubbard’s Legacy, because it is his copyright! It may be that other has contributed to the tech, and modification is a necessity, but that is a question for the future, because now David Miscavige is changing it to the worse, and that must be solved now. COB is not part of Hubbard’s legacy. David Miscavige just removed Hubbard from Power according to Jesse Prince!
    http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/09/29/eva-and-dm-part-iii/#comment-1765

    Martyrathbun09 // September 10, 2009 at 2:12 am
    However, even if we were inclined – which we are not – it was not LRH’s intention for any one or two individuals to run the Church. His estate planning which resulted in the formation of CSI, RTC, and CST never intended for there to be a dictator – benevolent or otherwise. It is all in the IRS exemption record which is available to the public. Further, Annie Tidman Broker Logan (who was the only person continuously with LRH for the last five years of his life – day in and day out) told me to my face when I intercepted her from re-uniting with Jim (apologies again to both Jim and Annie) at the Boston airport, that LRH was very explicit to her about that intention. He wanted checks and balances. And if you study the governing documents of the aforementioned corporations that is precisely what it was supposed to be (a result of his estate planning).
    http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2009/09/08/1984-the-severe-reality-adjustment/#comment-973

    Soderqvist1: I think we should give Hubbard’s estate planning a chance!

  14. RJ
    2009-10-03 at 21:42

    Chris :
    Also last time I checked,the invasion and liberation of 2 countries(Iraq,and Afgahnistan)were far more than just “bo peeps”.

    You mean like when Adolph Hitler “liberated” Poland or do mean like when the Soviet Union “liberated” Eastern Europe?

    By the way “invasion” and “liberation” are not the same thing unless you’re into Orwellian doublespeak.

    • Chris
      2009-10-03 at 23:27

      “You mean like when Adolph Hitler “liberated” Poland or do mean like when the Soviet union “liberated” Eastern Europe?”
      Nah I mean like when the Peoples Army of Vietnam “liberated” their Southern brethren from the “yolk” of imperialism(even though there weren’t any official American troops left in Vietnam at that point).
      Or like when Franco “liberated” his country from the “Communists”.
      See,I too can make wild comparisons that have no basis with the arguement.
      And no I wasn’t claiming that Invasion and Liberation meant the same thing,pragmatist.Invasion is when the armed forces of 1 country take over another country.
      Liberation is when an object,idea,or nation is liberated.
      In the case of the Iraq Conflict both occured,so I merley stated the obivous fact.

      • RJ
        2009-10-04 at 01:17

        “Liberation is when an object,idea,or nation is liberated.
        In the case of the Iraq Conflict both occured,so I merley stated the obivous fact.”

        Wow and you call me an “apologist” of Iran’s theocracy which by the way I neither support or defend. Guess it’s different when the theocracy is “American Made” as in Iraq.

        Yes they are so “liberated” in Iraq. Just ask any Iraqi how they like the occupation?

        Never mind the Afghans who are patiently watching us go into the “boneyard of empire” as the Soviets before us and the British before them.

        • Chris
          2009-10-04 at 18:20

          “Wow and you call me an “apologist” of Iran’s theocracy which by the way I neither support or defend. Guess it’s different when the theocracy is “American Made” as in Iraq.”

          Just how is the Iraqi government a “theocracy”?Please don’t tell me you subscribe to the “Maliki is an Iranian Puppet” conspiracy theory too.
          I’d like to see you tell THAT to the Peshmerga and the Sunni Awakening SOIZ militias.
          “Wow and you call me an “apologist” of Iran’s theocracy which by the way I neither support or defend”

          You “apologize” for it by your inaction to act on the Regime and by your probable belief that the Regime exists as blowback from CIA ops.Evil succeeds when good men do nothing.To remind us that we’re still both scientologists as we’re arguing this out,I would recommend to you that you audit out any charge on the subject of “inaction” or ‘conservatism”(American political definition and Tone scale definition too).

          • 2009-10-04 at 18:26

            From the sideline here I find it surprising if one of you would pull out the “you have charge on this”-card without realizing one might have stated the same to a mirror.

          • RJ
            2009-10-04 at 20:31

            “You “apologize” for it by your inaction to act on the Regime and by your probable belief that the Regime exists as blowback from CIA ops.Evil succeeds when good men do nothing.To remind us that we’re still both scientologists as we’re arguing this out,I would recommend to you that you audit out any charge on the subject of “inaction” or ‘conservatism”(American political definition and Tone scale definition too).”

            Oh give me a break!

            Thanks for the eval but allowing others to be self determined is not “inaction”!

            Also your quote from Emerson can be perverted to mean acting in the face of any perceived “evil” whether it exists or not which gives us endless war with no end based on anyone’s twisted concept of “evil”.

            By the way something Miscavige and OSA continually do!

            Also it is not just my perception but a fact that CIA replaced a democratically elected government in Iran with a corrupt Monarchy under AJAX that was in turn overthrown by a Theocracy.

            These are historical facts not merely my perception!

            Also I suggest you clear the word conservatism because overthrowing elected governments and meddling in the affairs of others is about as American as a Yugo!

        • Chris
          2009-10-04 at 18:28

          “Yes they are so “liberated” in Iraq. Just ask any Iraqi how they like the occupation?”

          True that they dislike the occupation(what man who loves his country’s sovereignty wouldn’t?) but ever since the Surge(WHICH WORKED,DONT YOU DARE TRY TO REVISE HISTORY ON THAT ONE)if you would watch the interviews of Iraqis they say that if they had a choice of Insurgents in the streets versus Americans,they overwhelmingly choose the Americans.Iraqis aren’t dumb.
          Iraqis are a smart people and proud people,just look at their celebrations on their newly minted Sovereignty Day when our soldiers withdrew from the City bases and into the country side.Still this isn’t “Anti-Americanism” at all here.At the end of the day we rescued that country from a Sunni Arab Hitler and a fascist genociding national socialist at that.And not even the all powerful OT RJ on Geir Isene’s blog will be able to take that accomplishment away!!! 🙂

          • 2009-10-04 at 18:35

            Don’t resort to low blows (even though a smile may be intended to soften the blow).

            Just a question: If the Arab world have liberated Saudi Arabia from what they may deem a corrupt regime, would we be cheering them on?

            • Chris
              2009-10-04 at 18:55

              “Just a question: If the Arab world have liberated Saudi Arabia from what they may deem a corrupt regime, would we be cheering them on?”
              The optimist in me hopes so.However what with the foreign policy nitwit elites we’ve had in office the last 12 years(and sadly to say the next 4) they’d probably backstab any tangible democracy movement in the back if only to “shorten” the GWOT and “stabilize” the oil supply.Pragmatism is bullshit like that.
              Why do you think Vietnam dragged on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on?It was these same elitist cliques of “know it alls” that gave NEOCON a bad name.All we are trying to do is make up for our past trotskyist inclinations and bring the idea of permanent revolution back from Jefferson and Trotsky up to the 21st Century.Neoconservatism is a bit like what Gandhi thought of Christianity.
              “A good idea never tried”

            • Chris
              2009-10-04 at 19:04

              Elities such as Robert McNamara who coldy recorded body counts and yet never allowed the Air Mobile to chase the Viet Minh back to their intellectual and physical caves.Elites like Kissinger who advocated Arclight,Niagra,and the Line Backer operations yet who never let the Pilots change their godamn flight paths(seriously…).
              Elites like LBJ who “escalated” the conflict on false pretenses(Gulf of Tonkin Incident) but who never had the political or geoplitical will to ACTUALLY DECLARE WAR ON THE NORTH VIETNAMESE STALINISTS.The man even acted “suprised” when us Trotskyists called him out on his failing attempts to impose a domestic agenda(the “great society”,what a crock that was) in the middle of great national distress(A WAR FOR GODS SAKES!!!!!!!!)
              And to top off the cherry on the Schizophrenic Cake he REFUSED TO FOLLOW General Westmorelands demands for even more troops for a limited invasion of North vietnam and the annihalation of the Viet Minh,all the while lying to the war hawks that he was “fighting communism”.

            • Chris
              2009-10-04 at 19:24

              God help Obama if he follows what McChrystal wants and has another surge.The man will try to “hide” the surge from the world so his domestic agenda(in this case healthcare “reform”) will have a “chance” to pass(it won’t pass it’s another crock of you know what).Mark my words,Geir,the Taliban will have a Tet of their own using equipment “borrowed” from Pakistani ISI and as usual we’ll slaughter them by the thousands,but that’s sure as hell not the way the Press is gonna see it.And that’s NOT the way Obama is gonna see it either.You see Geir,it’s a chain,a massive engramic chain here and it’s just repeating itself.Obama will doubtless stab our troops in their backs in a half assed attempt at getting reelected irregardless of catastrophe.This chain has been occuring in this Country ever since the 1960’s(ironically around the same time Ron was discovering R6,but we all know where THAT argument leads too 🙂 ).And this chain has spawned a psychosomatic illness in the people.We call it Vietnam Syndrome.It has spawned irresponsible insults to Common Humanity in the form as such Perversions as “The Mogadishu Line” and the “Third Way Economics”.It has damned the people of Darfur to Arab Tyranny,Slavery,Rape,and Genocide.It has damned the people of Cuba to abject Stalinism.It has damned the South Vietnamese and the Boat People to reeducation camps and the largest war refugee situation in the history of mankind,and it has damned us to our own mental and thetantual slavery.Our very own self propagated Implant Station and Theta Trap.The ultimate HIGH CRIME.
              Asking others for permission to be.
              Apologizing for our existence!To the implanted hypnotized Terroristc Child Regressor masses of the Semitic Religions no less!!!
              I for one,Geir will never apologize for my own existence.And I won’t do so for yours either.And I’ll fight these people with my pen and my voice until they kill me,nothing less.
              Liberty or Death.
              And that’s just my 2 cents on that.

              • Chris
                2009-10-04 at 19:25

                I apologize for the massive tl:dr but I think this needed to be stated.

              • 2009-10-04 at 19:43

                You got it approved. Truce is closing in on the horizon…

              • ExKane
                2009-10-07 at 00:27

                Are you referring to what I asked? Does this mean Marty agreed to contact the FBI? Not sure to whom this was addressed.

              • 2009-10-07 at 05:58

                I will talk to him about it.

              • ExKane
                2009-10-07 at 07:15

                Ok. For clarification, when you said “you got it approved” was that addressed to me and did you mean to say that Marty agreed to contact the FBI?

              • 2009-10-07 at 07:18

                Addressed to you.

              • 2009-10-04 at 19:42

                That’s more like 200 dollars worth of words and awarded a yellow card 😉

          • RJ
            2009-10-04 at 20:41

            Hey if you call totally wrecking a country’s infrastructure and sending it down the road to complete Anarchy while looking for non existent weapons of mass destruction an “accomplishment”!

            The Operation Iraqi “Freedom” has succeeded beyond all its wildest expectations!

        • Chris
          2009-10-04 at 18:47

          “Never mind the Afghans who are patiently watching us go into the “boneyard of empire” as the Soviets before us and the British before them.”
          Well now now.
          You do realize you wouldn’t even be claiming that without collapsing yourself in an intellectual cave if it weren’t for the great Obama failing at classic COIN tactics right?Reread some of those classified docs(if you still have them or ever had them) regarding the “Mule teams” who smuggled supplies to Afghanistan from the PRC and the USA.After sifting through the crap of all the poppy our grand heroes “experienced” with you’ll eventually find the terrified stories of getting bombed and sortied by Soviet Migs and Attack Helicopters.There was a time in Afgahnistan when the Freedom Fighters were getting pummelled by Soviet airpower.Until of course we gave them the Strela 2 which effectivley guaranteed a victory for Capitalism there.Don’t fall for the Trap of “Afgahnistan” or “insurgency” is “invincible”.
          It’s not.If the Greeks and the Muslims could take Afgahnistan with spears and arrows,we can do so with Fighter Bombers and Humvees.

          • 2009-10-04 at 19:39

            We have witnessed this Titan battle for a couple of days and I believe it will not resolve the difference of opinion here on this blog. In two hours I will be calling for a truce and then we will have the blog back on track and on topic.

            • Chris
              2009-10-05 at 03:50

              Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
              But it was such a fun gaaaaaaame!!!
              You just gave me a sad effect Geir!!!
              Whosoever on the internet will I argue with now?(batts innocent eyelashes) 🙂

              • 2009-10-05 at 06:42

                Come here, I’ll give you a hug 🙂

          • RJ
            2009-10-04 at 20:49

            No I saying it because it is a historical fact!

            Based on history.

            Something you and your fellow neocons should actually study some time before you go off making the same errors that others have made!

  15. TRUTH
    2009-10-04 at 03:59

    Chris, You are right about Iranian Islamic suppressive regime. Its leaders are doing exactly what DM is doing in the name of Religion. DM is destroying Scientology and Iranian leaders are turning all the Islamic believers against Islam.

  16. TRUTH
    2009-10-04 at 04:06

    Thalkirst!

    I strongly suggest that if you have question about Marty, just go directly to the source and ask him. DO NOT post it on someone else’s blog.

    I can completely understand where you distrust comes from. But for your own sake and sanity write a kind e-mail to Marty and get your questions answered.

    Marty is a descent human being. He had enough courage to make his wrongs, right. He is bringing great ex-church members (ex-SO & ex-Scientologists) together. There is nothing in this for him but helping everyone to love and help each other.

    I am sure you are a great being and deserve to be part of our theta team.

  17. ExKane
    2009-10-04 at 11:07

    RJ, try reading the forums on http://www.whyweprotest.net and you should see quickly that it’s silly to think these people are under the influence of the CIA. Anonymous got involved in Iran because they felt on a personal level that there had been an injustice done there – and nothing else. Give that tinfoil hat a rest, will ya? 😉

    • RJ
      2009-10-04 at 20:56

      Right and it just happened to align with US foreign policy!

      As I wrote how serendipitous!

      Tell you what I’ll get rid of my “tin foil hat” when you take off your blinders.

      • ExKane
        2009-10-04 at 23:23

        That’s like saying: “when Hurricane Katrina occurred, thousands of people decided to lend a hand (true). It was also in the interest of FEMA to help the situation in New Orleans (true). Therefore, they were secretly led by FEMA directors (does not follow).”

        Really, you need more evidence.

  18. AnonLover
    2009-10-04 at 17:14

    I think the CofS has evolved into a leviathon of evil intentions, and that has more than one monstrous head that needs severed before it will die. Anons are doing a damn good job of slaying the heads on the public facing side of the beast: the media no longer ignore the cult, those who escaped and move on no longer block out the past atrocitiees they witnessed, academics no longer fear repercussions for investigating the facts, and the future generations of fresh meat have significantly less chance of being fooled by a manipulative salespitch.

    These successes have led to a certain feeling of empowerment amongst those anons still passionate for the cause, which is good is some respects because the cult will not roll over and die with a long bloody battle. But that same feeling of empowerment can also foster short sightedness in regards to the realization that there are several other malignant heads of the beast that still need slayed that are not facing the general public & wll be the hardest ones to neutralize before the battle to destroy this cult enters the end game.

    And people like Marty and other freezoners are the only ones with access to those battleground, and ultimately – its those people who will be ones making the final stand. There’s bound to be casualties who escape the cult that will never regain what they lost to L Ron’s indoctrination’s and the mental mindf*k it unleashes on its victims, but thats not to say they can help even the score by taking up the fight on the battlefields the court of public opinion cant breach. And thats where Marty and others like him come in, whether us anons like it or not.

    Many of the cult’s victims wont truly see themselves as victims until all the vicous heads of the evil beast are bleeding out and the truly twisted nature of this organization seeps out in the carnage. The blows leveraged so far by Anonymous brought forth the likes of Marty, and the blows leveraged by Marty brought forth the likes of Rinder. Thats good enough sign for me to feel confident that even tho i personally find all things freezone an even worse corruption of the evil instilled into the world by the mother church, i still welcome any blows that can leveraged against the beast no matter where they come from.

    If Miscavige cant run the cult, his egomania and violent nature wont allow anybody else run it either and thus when the endgame finally arrives – it will be Miscavige who dishes out the killing the blows when it comes time for him to save his own ass. And if that comes to pass, all things directly related to LRH teachings will be tainted with the truth of just how wrong the cult’s false prophet really was. And therefore all things indirectly related LRH wont stand a chance in hell of surviving the fall of the mother church in a form strong enough to corrupt future generations unless they come clean, own up to the truth that LRH was deranged, and severe the ties to “standard tech” in order evolve into something different.

    Thus, whether or not Marty or any other freezoner has ambitions to “take over” is a moot point, there wont be nothing left to “take over” once Miscavige finally reaps all the posioned fruit from all intentions he and LRH have already sown.

    • 2009-10-04 at 17:31

      TL;DR = Yellow card. Next gets clipped randomly.

      • AnonLover
        2009-10-05 at 15:03

        Dually noted – Thank u for the warning.

  19. Nom de Plume
    2009-10-04 at 18:20

    Despite the obscure fact that America was founded as a REPUBLIC, not a DEMOCRACY, it has been continuously at war since the beginning of WW II, under the guise of spreading “democracy”.

    Def of Democracy: “Two wolves and a lamb voting on what’s for dinner.”

    I no longer look at the alphabet-soup tools like PNAC, KGB, NSA, CIA, UN, or at the spy-novel groups like Skull and Bones, Illuminati, NeoCons, Masons, etc.

    Sherlock Holmes said, “…when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”

    Obviously the “who” in the 3rd Party Law still has not been discovered yet, or their power to control our perceptions would have evaporated. Right? 😉

  20. ExKane
    2009-10-04 at 23:32

    Geir, could you maybe talk to Marty about him contacting the FBI? He is one of the few that holds the power to actually put this abomination known as SP Hall/Int Base to its final end. Freedom awaits at the other end of his actions. Think of the freedom that could be unleashed if you, Geir, convinced Marty to put this prison camp to its final end.

    • 2009-10-05 at 06:35

      I will do my best

  21. Famous and rich
    2009-10-13 at 17:05

    Your friend holds his cake fork like a prisoner, Isene. Watch prison movies. Prisoners don’t hold the fork between index and middle finger but like your friend with a fist grip.

    The knife in the middle of the table looks scary too.

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